EVER WONDERED?

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EVER WONDERED?

Where they are? Those responsible for the mess that the NEC has become? Sometimes I get called all sorts, and then some, from a multitude of posters who I know nothing about. The only thing I know for sure are they are not members of the NEC.

It seems they can be safely deployed against what I am saying. They can claim everything I am saying is inaccurate, not true, false, take your pick. These are folk who have never been on the NEC, never been near being on the NEC, have not a scooby about what has really been going on, or more accurately what has not been going on. They are the useful token force all too ready to “die for the Party” arguing a case that doesn’t exist but full of accusations and insults that those who point an accusing finger at the NEC are, take your pick, full of ego, TORIES, unionists, trolls,etc. and their sole task is to blow smoke over all the facts.

So today I decided to set them all a challenge. So here goes

  1. Contact an NEC member ask them why they are not out in public defending themselves, particularly as you know what I am saying is untrue. It would be much more effective if a serving NEC member just came out with the evidence that Independence  was a regular topic at NEC meetings, perhaps produced some recent agendas with it top of the agenda, or even the bottom.
  2. Perhaps explain in public why it was in the Party’s best interests that the NEC abandoned the principle of open, recorded voting in favour of a secret ballot thus ending the years of accountability that every other NEC had faithfully observed over decades.
  3. Explain why it was good practice to ban Westminster candidates from standing for Holyrood whilst not abstaining in the vote when a lot of them planned to be candidates themselves.
  4. You could maybe ask why the Party Accounts for 2019 are many months late being published and whether there is any chance of them being published this side of Conference.
  5. You could ask about salaries as well and if the media speculation about salaries as high or close to 200k are true? To be fair they might not be able to answer that one because even being on the top management committee of the Party it seems that this information is withheld from them. Likewise any other six figure salaries as well.

Now when you read those questions and know the truthful answers I have probably answered my own question. That is why there is not a NEC member in sight willing to defend their position. Willing to stand up with the proof that what I am saying is untrue. Others take note.

So back to the “loyal members” who are being used to defend the indefensible, while those responsible for this shocking mess hide in the shadows, do yourself a favour and demand hard cash for your efforts. You are their expendable army, no cost to them when it becomes more and more obvious to everyone the absolute shambles the NEC have made of running the Party. You can get away with “I didn’t know”. They can’t.

They are preparing their lines “if we had only known”, “wisnae me”, “I never supported any of these things” “I must have been at the toilet when that was decided” and the best of them all “This is all news to me” Can I suggest, given the lack of impact of the previous attacks of it all being about ego and me being a Tory it might be worth a try of pushing “what does it matter anyway”, “it’s small beer” “So we lost concentration on Independence, we can get it back”. I think all the other smears are a dead duck.

So before you come chasing me again, calling me names and saying I am lying let’s see some of your leaders, the rogues you are defending, come forward with evidence that contradicts what I have been alleging.

You see, from now on, every time you attack, I am going to refer you to this blog post and ask you “where are they?” After a while, if you have a brain in your head, you might start asking that too!

I am, as always

Yours for Scotland

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53 thoughts on “EVER WONDERED?

  1. Meanwhile in real world where the economy is slumping and jobs are being lost it might be timely to ask why in what was described as the “ Saudi Arabia “ of wind energy none of the current absolutely huge wind turbine fabrication contracts are going to Scotland.

    How can it be that all the fabrication work goes to Asia whilst Scottish yards like BiFab lie empty and closed.

    Under noted is an article on the subject and it’s a disgrace. What are the government doing about this. It’s our wind, or is it?

    Maybe we could ask the GRA focussed, the Woke focussed because they have to eat. Or maybe industry and jobs are something they don’t care about as they live in their bubble.

    https://www.energyvoice.com/opinion/268108/seagreen-snub-bifab/

    Liked by 3 people

  2. hopefully there will be a clearout of NEC members at conference – although its important to find adequate replacements who aren’t afraid to stand up to the leadership and who won’t take No for an answer. However a lot of the damage has been done and we could be going into a very important election with a cast of candidates that simply aren’t up to the job and that could impact on the final result

    Liked by 3 people

    1. There’s no “could” about it. Candidate selection will be finished by the time any conference happens. I’m not a member of the SNP, but I would encourage any who are to start asking hard questions in their branches and of the people who “run” the SNP.

      Like

  3. At my SNP branch meeting last evening, we asked about the motion we passed in August condemning the July NEC dual mandate decision, effectively barring SNP MPs from standing at Holyrood. Our Secretary reported making several enquiries of the NEC, but no response to date. That speaks volumes.
    Keep up the pressure, Iain.

    Here’s a list of NEC members and their contact info:
    National Executive Committee
    President
    Ian Hudghton – Twitter – @HudghtonSNP
    Leader
    Nicola Sturgeon – @NicolaSturgeon
    Depute Leader
    Keith Brown – keith.brown.msp@parliament.scot
    National Treasurer
    Colin Beattie – colin.beattie.msp@parliament.scot
    National Secretary
    Angus MacLeod national.secretary@snp.org

    Business Convener
    Kirsten Oswald – Kirsten.oswald.mp@parliament.uk
    Organisation Convener
    Stacy Bradley – Twitter @stacybradleySNP
    Local Government Convener
    Ellen Forson – ellen.forson@scottish.parliament.uk
    Policy Development Convener
    Alyn Smith – alyn.smith.mp@parliament.uk
    Member Support Convener
    Douglas Daniel – Twitter @DouglasDaniel
    Women’s Convener
    Rhiannon Spear – Rhiannon.spear@glasgow.gov.uk
    Equalities Convener
    Fiona Robertson – Twitter – @FionaSNP
    BAME Convener
    Graham Campbell – graham.campbell@glasgow.gov.uk
    Disabled Members’ Convener
    Morag Fulton – has FB page where you can send message
    Ordinary Members (Parliamentarians)
    Tommy Sheppard – tommy.sheppard.mp@parliament.uk
    Alison Thewliss – Alison.thewliss.mp@parliament.uk
    Regional Members
    Lynne Anderson (Central Scotland) – andersonlyn@northlan.gov.uk
    Cameron McManus (Central Scotland) – mcmanusc@northlan.gov.uk
    Christina Cannon (Glasgow) – christina.cannon@glasgow.gov.uk
    Alexander Kerr (Glasgow) – has FB page where you can send message
    Munro Ross (Highlands & Islands) – has FB page
    Roz Currie (Lothian) – with Leith SNP and works for Tommy Sheppard. Sent her an email from website: http://www.leithsnp.scot
    Andy Diack (Lothian) – has FB page
    Rhuaraidh Fleming (Mid Scotland & Fife) – has FB page
    Mireille Pouget (Mid Scotland & Fife) – Twitter @Mireille_Pouget
    Dorothy Jessiman (North East Scotland) – see Yours for Scotland blog by Iain Lawson (https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com) – she was not happy with NEC decision
    Heather Anderson (South Scotland) – heather.anderson@scotborders.gov.uk
    Rob Davidson (South Scotland) – rob.davidson@dumgal.gov.uk
    Emma Hendrie (West Scotland) – Twitter @emmahendrie
    Robert Innes (West Scotland) – FB page
    Representatives from the Parliamentary Groups, the Association of Nationalist Councillors and Affiliated Organisations also sit on the National Executive Committee.

    Like

    1. Not the only one waiting a response from the National Secretary over this issue. West Lothian Council Group also wrote regarding the issue, but no reply despite chasing it up.
      Whilst I am not a great advocate of conducting ‘internal party matters’ via the media, in this case there was no alternative. Getting blood out of a stone would be easier than a response from the ‘high heid yins’.
      There was the fiasco last time surrounding the Council elections and I fear we could be repeating the mistakes of 2017.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Tried to get discussion on NEC at branch, three times, final time, Mr MacLeod is doing a great job for little reward, this latest NEC, business is all Twitter spats, in any case it was all voted for at conference.
    I got the feeling it had been discussed in private with one mind to close it down.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. Here’s a resolution put forward at the Eastwood branch meeting:

    Draft Resolution for Party Conference November 2020
    Conference reminds all members of the Party that the Party has two aims, namely:
    (a) Independence for Scotland; that is the restoration of Scottish national sovereignty by restoration of full powers to the Scottish Parliament, so that its authority is limited only by the sovereign power of the Scottish People to bind it with a written constitution and by such agreements as it may freely enter into with other nations or states or international organisations for the purpose of furthering international cooperation, world peace and the protection of the environment.
    (b) the furtherance of all Scottish interests.
    Conference notes that the first aim is fully and clearly defined, and that this definition is accepted by all members of the Party universally as a condition precedent of their membership. It is not open to interpretation.
    Conference further notes that the secondary aim is wide and embracing of a range of matters that are open to differences of view and interpretation among members, but it is always subordinate to and must be understood to take its context from the first aim of the Party.
    Conference states that the National Executive Committee, as it is currently composed and operates, allows for certain interests to be prioritised by it under the secondary aim of the Party outwith the context of the first aim of the Party, which is not open to interpretation. Further it allows for this to be done without transparency, by way of purporting to make its decisions by secret ballot thus removing the NEC membership from scrutiny and accountability to Conference in terms of the first aim of the Party.
    Conference is mindful that with the exceptions of the Leader, Depute Leader and Business Convener of the Party, all positions of office within the Party are subject to being elected annually and that all members of the Party hold to the first aim of the Party equally and without variance. Accordingly, the current system for determining the membership of the National Executive Committee is an unjustified restriction upon the members and upon Conference as to electing who is best to serve the first aim of the Party as a member of the National Executive Committee.
    In consideration of all the above,
    Conference resolves:
    1. That with the exceptions of the Leader, Depute Leader and Business Convener of the Party, membership of the National Executive Committee shall be equally available to all members of the Party as may be elected by delegates annually at Conference without constraint as to them having to come from a particular section of the Party membership and in consequence the number of members of the National Executive Committee should be reduced to fifteen inclusive of the Leader, Depute Leader and Business Convener to maintain focus upon the first aim of the Party.
    2. That in all decisions of the National Executive Committee that are made by a vote, the ballot shall be recorded as to the vote cast by each member of the Committee and shall be available to all Party branches that this may inform the votes of their delegates to Conference

    Liked by 5 people

  6. “Sometimes I get called all sorts, and then some, from a multitude of posters who I know nothing about. It seems they can be safely deployed against what I am saying. They can claim everything I am saying is inaccurate, not true, false, take your pick. These are folk who have never been on the NEC, never been near being on the NEC, have not a scooby about what has really been going on, or more accurately what has not been going on”

    “After a while, if you have a brain in your head, you might start asking that too!”

    Well well, that’s me telt. Iain, You have just shown that you lack the nous to win friends and influence people. You have just insulted thousands of dedicated Nationalists who have devoted every minute of their spare time to the cause for (in my case) 60 odd years. People who have never sought high office in the Party (though sometimes been forced into being a convener, a candidate, whatever, through lack of any other volunteers. In the 60s and 70s the party was so small that it was possible to know personally every member of your own branch, all the Constituency delegates and members from all over Scotland whom you met at Conference, National Assembly, Bannockburn, etc. When you voted for NEC members, you were voting for people you actually knew – not relying on a half page resume to guide your choices.I know I voted for you Iain on more than one occasion. I have shared a table with you in the tea room and conversed with you on more than one occasion, but obviously I was not an important person, not part of the elite and now someone you have never heard of

    Anyway, times have changed since then. The movement is enormous and the SNP has 1000s of members, impossible to personally know more than a few. Basking in past glories cuts no ice with the new younger membership. It is their time now, though I hope they realise that they “stand on the shoulders of giants” who sacrificed much to get to the point where we stand now. I am so glad that the younger ones have taken up the reins and accept that their agenda is concerned with a broader spectrum of issues, including equalities and environmental. The Scottish Government cannot be solely Independence focused – they have a Country to run and are in general showing how much can be achieved with limited powers, thus reinforcing the argument for full Independence

    So, Iain, I am not brainless, nor am I sticking my head in the sand. You ask us to believe everything you say, present us with “facts” without any supporting evidence, other than your ‘insider knowledge’. You never reveal the source of these facts, As you are not an SNP member, far less a member of the NEC, we can reasonably ask YOU – Who is giving you all this information about the machinations of the NEC,? who is leaking the results of secret ballots?

    Yours for Scotland

    Sheena Fraser

    Like

    1. Sheena,

      I understand your dilema being an older SNP member and I personally know very little about the NEC and how it works. I don’t believe everything that all bloggers say either, but you have to be aware that the recent decisions by the NEC to block Joanna Cherry & Caroline McAllister from taking part in the next Holyrood elections was plainy wrong, undemocratic, underhand and nasty. These are “facts” that cannot be argued about. I hope this can help you see both sides of this argument here because you, me and Iain have much in common.

      Liked by 4 people

    2. “they have a country to run” – a devolved country, managing a fixed budget, with barely any legislative powers. And that takes up all their effort?

      So, that means they really couldn’t handle running an independent nation, with full fiscal autonomy, with an economy, with defence, trade contracts, foreign policy,,, etc. Etc. You certainly aren’t selling the SNP to me, and you certainly haven’t convinced me the SNP has any intention of bringing about independence – in that one tiny excuse you’ve made up to suggest the SNP should not have focus on independence or be transparent, you have just told me how truly incapable they are of holding any of their promises, and how much they lack the skills needed to run a country, let alone nearly enough to actually create a new nation. The SNP really aren’t up to the job are they?

      Sheena, you make the SNP sound weak and incapable.

      I have no idea why people go around making up excuses for the leadership, and repeating political sound bites as though they mean anything, when the leadership can’t even be bothered to give plausible excuses themselves. We really could do with people in charge that know what they are doing, instead of just whining about how terribly busy they are.

      Good article Iain.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Sheena,
    As a member, do you have the answers to those 5 questions?
    If so, please provide them.
    If not,why not?

    The SNP being larger than ever makes the need for vigilant honesty greater, not less.

    Saying it is all too complicated these days suggests inept management, which is certainly borne out by the increasing alienation of supporters and leadership.

    Perhaps the government cannot be solely focused on independence (though that is what it’s informed electors voted for) but the party has no such excuse.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. This criticism of the management is damaging to our party!! We vote for SNP which involves trusting the party we vote for. Everything should not be transparent. There are decisions especially delicate ones particularly pertaining to candidate selection that have to remain confidential. The unionist press would take delight in information being public about why a particular potential candidate or candidates are not suitable. If the NEC was wide open about these decisions it would make it even more open to criticism and condemnation. We vote for SNP so we either trust their judgement in everything that is decided or we don’t trust them. The majority of people in Scotland do trust them. You cannot have a party in power whose decisions have to be constantly approved with the so called ” democracy ‘ excuse. These people have years of experience I trust Nicola and all official representatives of our party. Let them “get on with it” fighting for independence and creating more great policies for a fairer and prosperous Scotland. Most people who condemn the NEC are the very people who have a grype due to possible rejection in many cases or other personal resentments. Let’s not use Labour tactics by giving these disgruntled members a platform.Our SNP party should be applauded- all officials who have been responsible for getting us to the ” dizzying ‘ heights” of success. And yes local activists have played a big part but who inspires them? Our SNP government!😊🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

      Like

  8. The NEC was always the target for groups with an agenda of their own, and the youth wing always fertile ground for them to recruit their foot soldiers. What has changed is the wider membership’s diminished ability to put them back in their box. Alex Salmond sowed the seeds of “democracy” handed down from on high … It is time to harvest the fruits of his folly and feed it to the pigs. It would be nice if he could put his personal revenge mission on hold and give us a hand.

    Like

  9. Sheena, “The Scottish government cannot be solely independence focussed”

    Yes they have a country to run within the limits of devolution but the SNP do not run the country. There has been no focus on independence by the SNP for the last 6 years.

    Liked by 3 people

  10. John Lemetti ” It would be nice if (Alex) could put his personal revenge mission on hold and give us a hand.

    Yes Alex, we tried to fit you up to spend the rest of your life in jail, caused you and your family 3 years of grief and hundreds of thousands in legal fees defending trumped-up charges based on blatant lies, trashed your reputation and continue to do so despite being exposed as liars in court. Why can’t you put all that to one side, for the benefit of the Party of course?

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Until and unless that wrong is acknowledged ( rather than , as we’ve seen , compounded ) and at the very least some kind of apology made to Alex Salmond there will be no peace within the SNP . It simply can’t be ( oh the irony ) ” brushed under the carpet “

      Liked by 1 person

  11. The SNP appears to lack the normal probity standards for any large organisation.

    Resolution proposed by Haddington and Lammermuir branch SNP on 20 October:

    Conference notes that the SNP’s exponential growth in membership post 2014 has inevitably created a need for an increased level of governance, accountability, and scrutiny.
    Conference believes that the Party should put in place a system of governance which would be best in class, and one which would provide legality, fairness and equity to all members, whatever their beliefs, and without fear or favour.
    Conference agrees that-as the Party mainly relies on subscriptions and donations for its income-its system of governance should follow the 5 Key Principles of Corporate Governance – i.e. Leadership: Effectiveness; Accountability; Remuneration; Relationship with members.
    Conference resolves to put in place a Code of Governance; review the membership of the NEC and put in place a Remuneration Committee and an Audit and Risk Committee.
    The new Code of Governance should be based on the following Key Principles of Governance:
    • Senior management to install a framework of prudent and effective controls to assess and manage risk, including the identification and control of conflicts of interest.
    • Members of the NEC actively encouraged to make appropriate challenges prior to decisions being taken-on the basis of “critical friends”. This “road testing” is an essential part of good group decision making. KPIs should be set out, published and reported on.
    • A Code of Conduct for all leadership positions and ordinary NEC members, with clear rules and defined timescales.
    • Salaries of the top tier of leadership should be made known to members. A new Remuneration Committee would be formed.
    • Full transparency and open reporting. All members’ queries or complaints should be responded to without delay. Any member- elected or otherwise- who is subject of investigation/discipline should have the process of this completed within a prescribed timescale.
    In addition to a full review of the NEC two new committees should be created:
    1) Remuneration Committee to evaluate salaries of incumbents against current market forces and ensure they are appropriate and approve and sign off any increases or changes where appropriate, and any requests for additional senior level posts.
    2) Audit & Risk Committee to review all changes made within the Party and ensure their legality and assess the risk of proposed changes to ensure continuing viability of the Party as a going concern.
    No elected member or a member standing for office, or Office Bearer of an Affiliated Organisation should be appointed to either of these two committees. Membership should be based on skills and experience of governance and financial management in a successful external organisation and members tasked to ensure that the financial stewardship and strategic direction of the management of the Party are in the best interests of the Party and membership.

    Supporting Statement
    Due to its membership size and financial standing the Party requires a Code of Governance to ensure the ongoing effective management of the Party and demonstrate that it is committed to conducting its business without fear or favour to one group over another.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. 1st of all *indywarrior* you’re either a comedian or you need to change you’re name.

    Ian it’s my belief that because of the work people like you, Craig Murray and indeed Stu Campbell do that Scotland might one day regain her independence, without these rogues being exposed and hopefully removed from any positions they may hold independence will remain a dream, we must not allow them to win, fantastic article once again and heartfelt thanks for all you do.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I am not a comedian and don’t like my intellect being questioned by someone whose grammar is not up to scratch.

      Like

  13. I don’t appreciate sarcasm especially when my effort in the SNP/Independence campaign has been pretty intense over the past few years and feel Indie Warrior is appropriate. I guess it is not a good idea to get involved with people obviously of the same opinion as the author. My opinions should be respected. Convince me- give examples of incompetence, lack of transparency, accountability. You and the author’s attitude is what eventually ‘destroyed ‘the Labour Party. I guess, no doubt the majority dissatisfied with our NEC are the people with an axe to grind possibly due to rejection in one form or another by our governing body!

    Like

    1. Speaking for myself I was never ever been rejected for anything, I was regularly elected on to the much smaller NEC, several times topping the poll. I have no axe to grind other wanting to see an NEC that has the interest and ability to move Independence forward.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Indywarrior – you said you trust Sturgeon – so did Salmond and that didn’t work out too well for him did it.

      Like

    3. IndieWarrior You ask;
      Convince me- give examples of incompetence, lack of transparency, accountability.

      Here, below, just ONE area which illustrates examples of incompetence, lack of transparency, accountability. There are many more areas I could detail but I’d be here for hours; process that decides why/how/for how long an elected member should be suspended; why some members in difficulty are given the services of SNP lawyer Scott Martin for free while others have to fend for themselves; how long a suspension should be; the length of any inquiry process as they vary widely. etc etc etc

      And do you honestly believe that a fully functioning democratic political party should have a leader and CEO who are married?

      Anyway here’s just one area in greater detail.

      1/The current bourach that is the candidates’ selection process; people being allowed to not only campaign before vetting, which they failed, BUT for a month prior were raising cash for their selection contest(he raked in over £1000, how can that be deemed acceptable?)

      That hustings, if they take place at all, are in no way uniform. That even although the SNP employs a ‘Head of Data and Technology’, no doubt at great expense, they don’t have the system in place which allows more than 100 to participate in a virtual hustings, which resulted, in Dumbarton for example, 100s being denied access. That many members across Scotland were not made aware of hustings taking place and in Cunninghame North one was cancelled at very short notice no explanation given.

      That numerous requests to HQ from both members and candidates that the hustings be recorded were roundly ignored, denying those unable to participate in the hustings an opportunity to hear the views of candidates they’re about to vote for.

      That the Justice Minister has a cousin and his wife standing in 2 seats; that his cousin Osama Saeed Bhutta had a web page up a good while ago where he implores people to sign up telling them if they are members for 3 months they can vote in the list rankings. How would he know that? Were all other candidates made aware of that too?
      Over a week ago he ‘suspended’ his campaign claiming he’d been wronged as a ‘propaganda email’ had gone out from a branch instructing them to vote for the sitting MSP. Both he and Corri Wilson put in the complaint but she didn’t ‘suspend’ her campaign. He has participated in no hustings, that’s if any have taken place, so again members are clueless having not had the opportunity to ‘meet’ the candidates.

      And on his twitter feed he claims that HQ are dealing with the ‘propaganda email’ and that it will be sorted soon, no details, how is that in any way transparent? Surely members should be informed why a candidate has ‘suspended’ their campaign and if they plan to still stand, I’m aware of people in the constituency who think he’s no longer in the race.

      And then there’s the wholly secretive carry on of BAME ‘paper’ candidates, so secretive it’s tough to get to the bottom of what’s really going on and why, makes a sheer mockery both of a stated commitment to promote diversity and shows a blatant disregard of basic democratic political party behaviour.

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      1. That is absolutely shocking about Bhuta. He is standing against our very respected, hard working incumbent MSP in Cunninghame North. I take your point about some of the things you have mentioned. However office bearers in certain constituencies are causing lots of ‘troubles with underhand tactics condemnation public of other candidates to a shocking degree. This ‘ cancer should be dealt with but people however seem to be ignorant of these shocking tactics and all criticism is aim at the NEC. These people possibly “trolls” want to do as much harm as possible by. They are attempting to dismantle and weaken the NEC’s authority and in my case continue with more disruption and damage to well respected successful incumbents in a lotbof constituencies. These people have to be closely scrutinised.

        Like

  14. ‘indywarrior’

    incompetence: as a party:
    failure to produce accounts on time.
    Complete failure to highlight the predations of westminster on the very basis of devolved administration.
    As a government:
    repeatedly putting forward flawed legislation, based on poor consultation.
    Complete failure to respond to the predations of westminster on the very basis of devolved administration.

    lack of transparency:
    changing NEC rules on an anonymous ballot with no explanation why these changes were so urgent or even required.

    lack of accountability: You try to get an answer out of the chief executive on any matter.
    He only seems to speak with those who will not challenge him or his wife.

    Starter question: What happened to the ring fenced referendum funds raised in 2017?

    If you do not appreciate sarcasm, do not invite it.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. As a government:

      Unknown amount spent on legal fees – lack of transparency

      Using personal email accounts for government business – lack of transparency

      Lying to parliament (evidence submitted to committee, along with evidence given in court) – on meetings, by the first minister – under the ministerial code a resignation event

      Scottish government joins s.30 judicial review case, delays it for months, then delays it again by backing out of it – no reasons given.

      SNP party in government:

      Adherence to the Growth Commission, no mention of actual SNP policy – as passed at conference – on the currency (at odds with Growth Commission Report) – lack of democracy and no acceptance of membership wishes

      No feasible roadmap to independence on SNP website

      There is no such thing as an ‘illegal referendum’ – SNP lies

      Absence of SNP leadership from AUOB independence marches/rallies – SNP often scheduling campaigning on the same days

      Barely a mention of independence, a constant litany of ‘now is not the time’, and,,,

      What DID happen to that ring fenced Indy fund?

      Like

  15. stuartm99 We are in some ways fortunate that our struggle for independence took the course that it has, otherwise Alex’s plight would pale into insignificance compared to the many patriots who would have found themselves on the receiving end of British justice of the kind meted out in Kenya, Malaya, Ireland and elsewhere.

    Like it or not, until such times as she overplays her hand as Our Lady of Enduring Compassion, Nicola Sturgeon is in the eyes of the public the biggest asset we have, and trying to stick her head on the end of a pike would be both difficult and counter-productive.

    The election is just around the corner and we need the SNP to win it, we also need a substantial number of pro-independence MSP’s elected under an alternative banner on the Regional Lists (because under the current circumstances, it is unlikely that the SNP can be mended in time). With Alex Salmond fighting for Scotland, that could be achieved. A full-on internecine war between The Salmondinis and The Nicacolytes, could see our dreams turn into a pillar of shit.

    Alex is entitled to play his hand as he wishes but he is no more entitled to to exemption from the relevant clause of The Declaration of Arbroath, than King Robert was before him.

    Like

    1. The Britnat parties are liars and crooks. I will not vote for a bunch of liars and crooks who kid on they want independence.

      Like

    2. For goodness sake,
      no one wants to put her head on a stake, just come clean and make way for someone who reflects the strong mood for independence.

      The rest of your comment:

      The election is just around the corner and we need the SNP to win it,…..than King Robert was before him.

      is so crazy, I honestly recuse myself from refuting it.

      Liked by 1 person

  16. Paul

    It was a metaphorical stake.

    You don’t think we need the SNP to win the upcoming election?

    or you think they would still win it – if Little Nicky was to own up to being the Lesbian Mi5 sleeper agent who framed AS, as she is so often accused of being at WoS?

    Make way for who … We’d have as hard a time finding a universally approved righteous candidate, as Lot did in Sodom and Gomorrah.

    Call me crazy if you want but I still think our best chance of getting independence this generation, is if enough of the electorate eschew the SNP 1&2 mantra, both as a no risk warning shot across their bows, and to elect enough List MSP’s who’s only agenda is to push a seemingly reluctant SNP across the finishing line.

    Like

  17. It was a metaphorical stake.

    That you introduced, no one else made such a request.

    You don’t think we need the SNP to win the upcoming election?

    We need a party (or parties) committed to independence to win the election. As it stands the SNP is not that.

    or you think they would still win it – if Little Nicky was to own up to being the Lesbian Mi5 sleeper agent who framed AS, as she is so often accused of being at WoS?

    That is as mad a collection of words as I have ever come across.

    My view is that if the party (you know,members and all that) still has the ability to clean house, it should be done now, before the managerial malfeasance, as illustrated by others in this discussion, is employed against independence.

    Make way for who … We’d have as hard a time finding a universally approved righteous candidate, as Lot did in Sodom and Gomorrah.

    You do keep outdoing yourself.

    All that is required is honesty.

    I can think of a few, but they have been corralled, by an anonymous NEC fiat, in westminster.

    Call me crazy

    I’m not a psychiatrist

    if you want but I still think our best chance of getting independence this generation, is if enough of the electorate eschew the SNP 1&2 mantra, both as a no risk warning shot across their bows, and to elect enough List MSP’s who’s only agenda is to push a seemingly reluctant SNP across the finishing line.

    Please share this strategic insight with the first minister,her husband and their NEC.

    Pleas share the response.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. paul

    “My view is that if the party (you know,members and all that) still has the ability to clean house”

    By Zoom?…and repair the (difficult to quantify the amount) of attendant damage both internal and in the public perception. In the allotted time – I fear not. Too many different lines in the sand have been drawn

    Safer to borrow one of those action movie tropes – and agree not to kill one another until the baddies have been defeated in the last reel.

    “That is as mad a collection of words as I have ever come across.” – All used frequently on Wings, except for perhaps “Little Nicky”, I may have made that one up or heard it elsewhere.

    “All that is required is honesty” – You are having a laugh?

    The death of the SNP’s internal democracy happened on their watch, It didn’t happen overnight, it was a process that started when Alex(who I voted for) became convener and to a man/woman they all fell in line and stayed there through thick and thin, firstly for the sake of party unity and laterally to protect their new found “careers”, nobody shouted foul!

    I’m afraid a stout “Nuremberg Defence” and some enthusiastic finger-pointing in the direction of Murrell and whoever it was who decided to include non-binary as an option, on membership application forms. – Is a less than reliable indication of purity of heart than you might hope.

    We have no time to mould the SNP back into shape or create to a brand new Utopian Party all we can do is throw the kitchen sink at this election. Our primary focus being to make sure that the SNP does what it says on the tin. – Conference looms and Oops – Candidate selection is already apon us.

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    1. John, I have to conclude you are not arguing in good faith, but in bad faith (BF henceforward)

      “My view is that if the party (you know,members and all that) still has the ability to clean house”

      By Zoom?…and repair the (difficult to quantify the amount) of attendant damage both internal and in the public perception. In the allotted time – I fear not. Too many different lines in the sand have been drawn

      (BF)I never suggested zoom, and it is the incumbents who are drawing the lines, and you elide my full response.

      Safer to borrow one of those action movie tropes – and agree not to kill one another until the baddies have been defeated in the last reel.

      (BF) This is nonsensical

      “That is as mad a collection of words as I have ever come across.” – All used frequently on Wings, except for perhaps “Little Nicky”, I may have made that one up or heard it elsewhere.

      (BF) So why did you use them here?

      “All that is required is honesty” – You are having a laugh?

      (BF) Not at all, I was responding to your strange biblical bollocks

      The death of the SNP’s internal democracy happened on their watch, It didn’t happen overnight, it was a process that started when Alex(who I voted for) became convener and to a man/woman they all fell in line and stayed there through thick and thin, firstly for the sake of party unity and laterally to protect their new found “careers”, nobody shouted foul!

      (BF) So why not cry foul now?
      Do we just say shit happens?
      Do we just reject causality?
      Why has nothing been done to address these problems under the nouveau regime you demand we sustain?

      I’m afraid a stout “Nuremberg Defence” and some enthusiastic finger-pointing in the direction of Murrell and whoever it was who decided to include non-binary as an option, on membership application forms. – Is a less than reliable indication of purity of heart than you might hope.

      So you know what I hope?

      We have no time to mould the SNP back into shape

      Why not? westminster rewrites things in a day, we’ve got a good few months.

      create to a brand new Utopian Party all we can do is throw the kitchen sink at this election. Our primary focus being to make sure that the SNP does what it says on the tin. – Conference looms and Oops – Candidate selection is already apon us.

      I’m not sure where the ‘we’ or ‘our’ comes from, the original post and the valid comments are all about the problem of ‘them’ and ‘us’.

      Like

  19. Paul

    “Bad Faith” – A bit of Pot calling the Kettle black here, methinks.

    In defence of the biblical bollox I would contend that it is appropriate, as anyone who stands against “the incumbents” at this time, will however inadvertently, find himself allied with the religious nutters as well as the homophobes and the racists.

    To the more relevant part of the discussion :

    “(BF) So why not cry foul now?” – It will most probably end in tears, at a time when our tears should be tears of joy.

    “Do we just say shit happens?” – If either of us thought that, we would not be reading Ian’s Blog?

    Do we just reject causality? – Hell no, Using a wide brush, we find ourselves(rank and file independenistas) victims of the truism “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” a problem that threatens to swallow the whole world, never mind the SNP, though if we don’t fix the SNP, any chance we may have had to help fix the world will become even more remote.

    “Why has nothing been done to address these problems
    under the nouveau regime you demand we sustain?” –

    Not sure, I only re-joined a couple of months a go,hoping to find out. Thus far I am unconvinced that an attempt at a Palace Revolution is either possible, viable or in the longer term desirable and observe that a substantial majority of the proles are under the spell of the enchantress.

    Of people further up the greasy pole who I know are not mindless drones, I have heard on the subject of the list vote “Our policy is SNP 1&2 and party discipline is paramount”, and “They wouldn’t be under the party whip”, on the suggestion of e-mailing members re-closer co-operation with Yes groups – “HQ won’t allow us to do that” and the distinct impression that even if the SNP gets 100% of the vote in both Ballots they would still be happy about asking for another F*ing Referendum.

    Which is why i think our focus should be on encouraging List votes for auxiliary nationalist party/s – pick a battle that can be won, and one the outcome of which will be beneficial, possibly pivotal to our aim of achieving independence rather than risk a Pyrrhic victory, which would leave only our sense of moral superiority intact.

    Like

  20. Paul

    “Bad Faith” – A bit of Pot calling the Kettle black here, methinks.

    Anyone who uses ‘methinks’ is an automatic arsehole

    In defence of the biblical bollox I would contend that it is appropriate, as anyone who stands against “the incumbents” at this time, will however inadvertently, find himself allied with the religious nutters as well as the homophobes and the racists.

    That reminds me of the old problem of overdeterminism, if i disagree with you, I will put you in a concentration camp.
    I have neither that desire,let alone the resource

    To the more relevant part of the discussion :

    “(BF) So why not cry foul now?” – It will most probably end in tears, at a time when our tears should be tears of joy.

    So you are saying nothing should be exposed, as it would inhibit joy?

    “Do we just say shit happens?” – If either of us thought that, we would not be reading Ian’s Blog?

    Do not bring ‘either’ into the discussion.

    Do we just reject causality? – Hell no, Using a wide brush, we find ourselves(rank and file independenistas) victims of the truism “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” a problem that threatens to swallow the whole world, never mind the SNP, though if we don’t fix the SNP, any chance we may have had to help fix the world will become even more remote.

    What do you want to fix?

    “Why has nothing been done to address these problems
    under the nouveau regime you demand we sustain?” –

    Not sure, I only re-joined a couple of months a go,hoping to find out. Thus far I am unconvinced that an attempt at a Palace Revolution is either possible, viable or in the longer term desirable and observe that a substantial majority of the proles are under the spell of the enchantress.

    Of people further up the greasy pole who I know are not mindless drones, I have heard on the subject of the list vote “Our policy is SNP 1&2 and party discipline is paramount”, and “They wouldn’t be under the party whip”, on the suggestion of e-mailing members re-closer co-operation with Yes groups – “HQ won’t allow us to do that” and the distinct impression that even if the SNP gets 100% of the vote in both Ballots they would still be happy about asking for another F*ing Referendum.

    Which is why i think our focus should be on encouraging List votes for auxiliary nationalist party/s – pick a battle that can be won, and one the outcome of which will be beneficial, possibly pivotal to our aim of achieving independence rather than risk a Pyrrhic victory, which would leave only our sense of moral superiority intact.

    If this is an honest SNP activist, we are all fucked.

    pick a battle that can be won

    You do not seem to be able to conduct an argument, let alone a battle

    Like

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