WHY WE ARGUE.

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WHY WE ARGUE

It is because we care. It is because we desperately want to see Independence for our country. Not for ourselves, although it would be very welcome, but for the huge numbers of our fellow citizens whose lives would be enhanced if Scotland could have a Parliament in full possession of our assets and wealth and the powers to make use of them on Scotland’s priorities. Ending foreign control of our country, once and for all.

I always thought the most powerful argument we made in 2014, far more important than the economy, what currency we should use etc was the overwhelmingly good sense that the big decisions about Scotland and our future would be best made here in Scotland by the folk living and working here. Those with the biggest stake in our country and the most to gain from getting it right. I could never see how it would be better to hand those powers to a Parliament in London where Scotland’s priorities rarely feature and where our elected representatives are outnumbered by more than ten to one. In passing, that ten to one fact could do with a bigger role in our campaigning, far too few Scots know and understand just how powerless Scotland’s MP’s are in Westminster. It is an argument when properly deployed that changes minds.

We live in times when the main Party in favour of Independence is facing a lot of criticism from both within and out with the Party from the rest of the YES movement for the lack of drive and direction present at this time. As one unused mandate is piled on top of another it has become noticeable that Independence only seems to rise up the agenda as another election approaches. Likewise punters are becoming well used to the leadership’s use of language to describe future action as always being non specific and always leaving a get out clause to delay further once an election has passed. 

This is further complicated by the actions of the NEC who have not been interested in pushing Independence but getting hung up on issues like GRA and the Hate Crime legislation while at the same time stripping the Constituency organisations, branches and ordinary members of a range of important powers in an effort to impose centralised control over the entire vetting and candidate selection processes. Much of this was done in secret. The NEC itself was denied any opportunity to discuss Independence with the agenda dominated by how the selection process could be controlled and how the minority groupings on the NEC could exert the maximum advantage for their members into the process.

Here ladies and gentlemen we uncover the reason for the incredible anger from the leadership and the controlling cliques about the pro Indy bloggers. You see this was all supposed to happen with no involvement from the rest of the Party. These were designed as closed door deals. This plan was blown apart by the pro Indy bloggers revealing to all what was going on and who was responsible.

Take a look back on Facebook or Twitter you will find constant attacks on the bloggers. None of these attacks will deal with the issues, none of them will challenge any of the facts. They concentrate on calling people names, accuse them of being divisive, being Tories, anything but challenging the accuracy of the articles themselves. They have been caught and exposed and they don’t like that one little bit.

It is now reaching farcical levels, yesterday I was named by Peter Wishart MP as being, amongst others, being one of these SNP BAAD Bloggers. I had to laugh. I can’t recall writing even a single word about #wishywashyPete, to give him his Twitter nickname, on my blog ever before, so I thought I should see what I could find out what he has done for Independence since being elected. Not the easiest of tasks.

I have discovered that he has been enjoying his pay and pension contributions for his seat at Westminster for almost twenty years and that he once attempted to nominate himself as the Speaker of the House of Commons (unsuccessfully) I spotted he described the most prominent pro Indy blog in Scotland as failing at the same time as its recorded views has soared from around 670k to 860k a month. He also appears to hold the record for blocking the most members of the SNP and members of the Yes Movement from his Twitter feed. Now I am sure he is an excellent local MP because people always say that if there is a lack of specific achievements available. Far from being SNP BAAD I have a big collection of comments, emails and letters from SNP members thanking me for shining a light on what is going on. I haven’t had to block anyone on Twitter yet either.

Now here is a tip to Pete to get us on the same side once again. Side with openness and honesty. Support the ordinary membership. Oppose those who seek to centralise the entire Party. Support open accountancy of financial accounts. Work with others outside the Party who seek Independence and build bridges between the SNP and the Yes Movement. Accept as a veteran SNP MP you have a duty to help lead the fight to settle up, not settle down.

I enjoy your music, give me a chance to enjoy your politics.

I am, as always

Yours for Scotland.

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62 thoughts on “WHY WE ARGUE.

  1. The title of your blog, has nothing to do with what you wrote.
    Absurdity at its best! Calling out people for being clised minded and name calling, when that is exactley what you have done here.
    In addition, using and reapeating an insulting term that you say a person is known by…dosent make you entiled to repeat it without responsibility

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    1. As a non SNP member but a voter and supporter of independence I am totally sickened and disgusted that an elected politician as Wishart is can have the audacity to deride and demonise voters who are ridiculing his and his parties inept ideas and policies to forward our ideal of independence . Yet you come on to this man’s blog to remonstrate with him for calling Wishart out for the very thing Wishart is doing to him and others . The SNP and their adoring uncritical sycophantic fans had BETTER realise that they NEED the votes of the WHOLE electorate not just their members to remain in power , WE voted them in , WE can easily vote them out

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Excellent post Iain . Spot-on about the responses from the SNP Establishment to WOS and others , yrsel included , I had exactly the same thought – and this includes the self-appointed security guards who patrol WGD looking for any deviance from the ” Nicola has a plan ” orthodoxy – never once do they actually address the criticism , examine the actual content , show some intellectual honesty -eg have we moved closer to Independence under NS ? , do the actions of the SG re the “Alex Salmond ” case appear like those of people with nothing to hide ? can anyone really take the ” woven through ” ” explanation ” seriously ? Rather than pathetic attempts to shoot the messenger/s we should be thanking them for exposing the manifest and manifold failings of those we have entrusted to deliver our aspiration to be an Independent nation once again , Would it really have been preferable if we were still all under the impression that everything was rosy in our Government and our cause was progressing well under the current regime , as I myself was until approx the beginning of this year ? Loyalty is a most admirable quality , blind , intransigent refusal to see what’s right in front of you is not . Painful as is to admit that those you esteemed and trusted have been revealed as not what they proported to be , better the pain , and possibility of renewal , now than the much greater eventual pain when the consequences of deception bring all hope and dreams crashing down around us . Truth will always trump expediency , at least , we have to believe it will .

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Yes. Well said castanet 20. This must all be dealt with NOW. I am an SNP member but like many of us I am also involved with Grassroots and AUOB. Independence is a broad church and we should all remember that . And everyone has to be honest with everyone else. If we are going to succeed there must be no space for ‘politicking’ , obfuscation, coercion, secret rule-changes and false witness. Those responsible, whoever they are, must be identified and held to account. We would do well to recall Mark 9 38-41: ‘for whoever is not against us is for us’, Very apposite to the present circumstances. As much as anything, Independence is a MORAL crusade to free us from a despicable government, and we should comport ourselves accordingly.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. I wish all supporters of independence could understand the situation like you do Ian . The SNP is not the party of the people it once was .

    Without unity in the ranks , transparency and loyalty to the cause , winning our freedom won’t be easy .

    Alex Salmond was criticized for bring strong headed . Some even saw his strong character as being arrogant .
    He is a man , so determined to gain independence that nothing will stand in his way . That is what angers his opponents the most about him.

    He kept a tight ship and demanded the same focus and determination from everyone on the team. Top priority .. Independence !!

    Who knows why anyone would want to hound him from Scottish politics and from the party he loved and gave so much to.

    One thing is sure his strong leadership and determination to fight Westminster is sadly missing .

    He could have been a huge asset to Nicola’s team given the chance.

    What a waste of a crucial and invaluable resource for Scotland’s fight for freedom and very sad to see Alex in this position.

    Going forward the focus within the SNP must revert back to utilizing every available resource to fighting Westminster.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Yes indeed Kathleen McKechnie . Let’s ask ourselves for a moment who had most to gain from the removal of Alex Salmond. Personally I think this has MI5/6 written all over it. Modus operandi: weaponising MeToo. A disgraceful thing to do. We have MOLES and they need to be outed. The SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT has demanded transparency from SNP. and this must be honoured – FULLY and NOW.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. There can be no loyalty, no unity of purpose unless we can remove and or emasculate those whose primary interest is self interest and not independence.

    Wishart is a veteran MP of nearly twenty years. Based upon a current salary level of over £81,000 a year, with pension benefit extra ( and assessed at circa £29,000 per year) and average SNP expenses of circa £155,000 ( to include London accommodation, travel, and support ) the cost of an MP like Wishart is around £270,000 per year.

    Wishart has therefore at today’s prices cost the taxpayer circa £5.4 million pounds. Big money in anyone’s book and with income from his legacy music career you can understand why folks like Wishart can become comfortable. Becoming comfortable, becoming part of the establishment, becoming removed from the people who put you where you are is a very human trait. Some folks never lose the fire, but some do, and that’s maybe why Wishy fancied his barrow to become the Speaker of the House of Commons.

    Comfortably Indy lite this sell out becomes even more apparent in his attack on actual independence supporters. Truly time he either comes back on track or is gone. Independence is our goal, not a comfortable sinecure in the House of Commons.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Indeed Willie – nothing extinguishes youthful political passion more effectively than having a seat in the HOC ( followed by a nice well-upholstered chaise longue in the HOL for those who accepted and spent the 30 pieces of silver ) , though it appears having a seat in Holyrood is equally conducive to well-remumerated narcolepsy

      Liked by 5 people

  5. Spot on Iain. We have parliamentarians who seem to have gone rogue. They think they can say/do anything and the Party, you and I, will unite behind them. They think the rules/discipline only applies to members not to them. Too many seem to have settled into the ‘lifestyle’ and are comfortable. The members are starting to see through this and realise that we, the members, set policy and need to drive both Independence and change.

    Liked by 7 people

  6. One point. The “bloggers” (at least the “malcontent” grouping) have undoubtedly NOT added so much as one vote to the pro-indy pile in years. They have allowed themselves to obsess over SNP-bad to the extent you will be hard pushed to find any article on any of their sites that actively seeks to persuade the unpersuaded to back independence. In the meantime, support for the SNP, and subsequently independence, has sky-rocketed despite the “malcontents” best efforts. When your actions and arguments have seen hundreds of thousands move from No to Yes, you have every right to feel aggrieved at those whose actions and arguments are unlikely to have convinced many, if any, of the efficacy of independence and have spent years trying to undermine the ONLY party that can deliver it.

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    1. “… undermine the ONLY party that can deliver it.”

      Indeed. And therein lies a problem: if that party is being wrongly led do we all shut up and do nothing about it? The leader isn’t the party. Here’s hoping the new NEC can put the leadership, or a new leadership, back onto the right road.

      Good article Iain BTW

      Liked by 3 people

    2. You really must try to be more accurate in your comments. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing but I am not going to tolerate inaccurate smears. Suggesting there are no pro Indy articles on this or other pro Indy bloggers sites is a lie. An intentional one at that. It earns you your first warning, three strikes and you are out. You will find many pro Independence articles, fewer Pro SNP ones, largely because of the very divisive and stupid behaviour of the NEC.

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Interesting that you should assume I was including your blog in the “malcontent” stable Iain. But since you mention it, I’ve gone over the articles on your blog going back to October and anti-SNP articles dominate what could be loosely called pro-Indy articles by over 10 to 1. Anti-Unionist party articles are an even rarer commodity. Wings will be much, much worse.

        So I used hyperbole in my post. Am I to banned for that? Malcontents use hyperbole in their posts all the time. Not to mention slander. I see the poster who called the SNP N*zis did not receive a rebuke and is still able to post. Similarly, those who refer to the “criminal” and “corrupt” nature of the SNP. It appears it is only those who dissent from the malcontent gospels who face disciplinary action.

        So I disagree with you Iain. You DO seem to have a problem with those who disagree with you and you WILL tolerate inaccurate smears so long as they come from malcontents. Just what malcontent blogs claim is wrong with the SNP.

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    3. Mmmm… you can PROVE that it is the SNP that has caused the indy support to ‘sky rocket’? Because I don’t believe that. WM handling of brexit & COVID is far more likely to have done that! Because up to then, the polls hardly changed! In FOUR YEARS, the polls hardly moved! It has only been the last couple of years as brexit repercussions have become obvious, that the poll numbers have increased. The party, the leaders of the party have done NOTHING to further Indy. Absolutely NOTHING. Au contraire, they have effectively TRIED TO BLOCK any preparations for independence.

      A written constitution could make a massive difference. There is just such a thing sitting on Michael Russell’s desk & has been there for A YEAR. Dr Mark McNaught took 5 years to write an amazing piece of work, taking the best of constitutions from around the world & incorporated it with input of Scots. Scotgov haven’t even spoken of it, never mind considered passing it through legislation.

      Then there is the Sec.30 case which Martin Keatings is presently pushing through the Scottish Courts. It’s absolutely deplorable that not only have Scotgov not initiated this case, but have actively dragged their feet & tried many times to derail & block the process!

      Questions that ‘wavering, indy fence sitters’ have, ie currency, economy etc. – there is NO current information, NO inclination for Scotgov to give any kind of direction to activists to enable them to answer these questions at Stalls, branch meetings etc.Common Weal Group, who seldom come out & disparage Scotgov issues, usually just get on with devoloping policy, etc., have lately come out & complained how Scotgov are doing NO policy work & CWG are being left to do EVERYTHING. That they are getting VERY tired but as they said – SOMEONE has to do it! Yesterday David Henry asked Alan Smyth on Twitter where he could find the Scotgov policies developed within the last year and a half as, after searchng dilgently through the Scotgov site, he hasn’t been able to find ANY record of anything having been developed.

      Scotgov have shown what is almost CONTEMPT for any marches, any HOOP meetings or any other form of Grass Roots organisation supporting the SNP Prime Directive. Not once has the FM attended a Grass Roots march, rally (yes she was at one which SHE organised in league with ‘The National) or given any kind of support for the foot soldiers that take to the streets to encourage folks to walk with HER & Scotgov on the road to Indy. And in almost a year, you can count on one hand the number of times the Indy social media. ie IndyLive & Broadcasting Scotland etc. have gotten a place in the media pack to ask questions at COVID briefings… Scotgov gave £3m to the Main Stream Media, the very people that deceive, disseminate, spin and otherwise LIE to the very people grass roots foot soldiers are trying to persuade to back Independence.That money was to keep MSM regurgitating the same old disinformation, lies & nonsense that they have spewed out in nasty waves since 2012. How did our own Scottish media benefit from that little hand-out? I can tell you – NOTHING. THEY DID NOT GET ONE SINGLE PENNY. Both IndyLive & Broadcasting Scotland are run on shoe string budgets, but give very valuable and informative services. Both have permanent donation systems and are forced to beg to get money to fund more programming…They didn’t get a single penny from Scotgov’s generous gift to the MSM.

      Bloggers who keep the Indy Grass Roots informed, keep them motivated & keep independence at the fore front of Scottish consciousness… they get ignored or treated with disrespect. Yet these are the people whose work ‘fence sitters’ go to, to find out the truth about Scottish finances, the state of the economy & to find out why exactly independence is so badly needed. These are the people the so often convince fence sitters to make the leap…

      If you think the top echelons of the SNP don’t know about the little cabal of Wokes that have taken over the NEC, and infected it with secrecy, opaqueness and re-jigged the rules to suit their own career paths, then I think you are walking round with your eyes shut.

      It really is like either Scotgov/SNP high heid yins are embarrassed by the Grass Roots Movement & doesn’t want to be associated with them – or they really don’t want Independence & wish the Grass Roots Movement would just STOP pushing the country in that direction! If we DO get independence, it will be IN SPITE OF Sturgeon & the top bods, not BECAUSE of them.

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Plenty of hyperbole and slander in there Iain. Will there be a rebuke for Katie? Or do her malcontent credentials render her acceptable and immune from such things?

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      2. Spot-on Katie . What’s actually happening is the SNP Sleepership and it’s unquestioning disciples are panicking because they’ve been rumbled , the game’s a-bogey , they’ve done less than nothing to further our cause in the last 6 years , in fact , as you say , handicapping it in the case of M Keating’s efforts and in general by doing virtually zero in the way of preparing to seriously challenge whatever obstacles the Brit State tries to put in our way . That they now try to claim the , welcome , shift in our favour in the polls is laughable , the reasons are as you state , and we can reasonably assume had we had a leadership able and willing to exploit the intense unpopularity of the current Tory Gov in Scotland and the supreme opportunity the Brexit result presented we would be much further ahead in the polls

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Very well put Katie and every part of it is true , it is disgraceful and outrageous that the SNP and NS have done absolutely NOTHING , NADA , ZILCH in the past 4 years to CONVINCE undecideds to independence , NO information to counteract the GERS abomination despite PROMISING one this year , NO exposure and proof that England is stealing our resources ,power , water , green energy , NO figures to CONVINCE voters that Scotland can and should run our own affairs , all these things and more are being done by individuals and bloggers , NOTHING apart from reviled policies is being done by the Sturgeon clique

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      4. To take your claims one by one Katie;

        (1) Certainly WM incompetence has been a major factor in persuading people of the merits of independence, but that would be worthless if the Scottish govt showed similar levels of incompetence. You need a positive alternative before you change your view and, despite the malcontents best efforts to persuade the electorate otherwise, the FM and her govt have provided that. Yes it has taken years to come to this juncture, but that is the nature of these things. People are resistant to change and things tend to have to build up over time to the point a “dam” bursts for it to happen. The 2019 WM election burst that dam. Previous examples are the late surges to the SNP in the 2011 Holyrood election and to Yes in 2014.

        (2) As to the Constitution. I’m sure Dr McNaught’s document is a commendable piece of work, but it is only his opinion. Why should he be the only one with a say in the make-up of an independent Scotland’s Constitution? All we need to know right now is that there will be a Constitution to be decided upon collectively after a vote for independence. To prematurely push forward a “like it or lump it” Constitution unilaterally that many may find fault with would be counter productive.

        (3) “Contempt” for the Marches? Please give me examples of this “contempt”. SNP parliamentarians have taken part in the Marches and, I believe, spoken at them. But Sturgeon is the FM of Scotland trying to persuade the unpersuaded she leads a serious govt concentrating on governmental matters, not just some populist “rabble rouser”, which is exactly how she would be portrayed if she lead marches through our cities. There has to be a clear distinction between activism and government or you get into some pretty ugly politics.

        (4) IndyLive and Broadcasting Scotland? Never heard of them. Doesn’t mean their not doing good work but it is clearly not cutting through to the main stream. I’ve no doubt there are other such outlets providing similar services to other spheres but it would not be a good look for the Scottish govt to be slipping tax payers money to favoured media outlets. The Tories are currently taking pelters for that kind of thing concerning PPE. Why doesn’t Wings with its bottomless pit of donor’s contributions help them out? Or why don’t they crowd fund themselves? If malcontents are as numerous as they claim they would get £millions.

        (5) The “bloggers” you idolise (the malcontent ones I presume) have done precious little in keeping independence at the forefront of Scottish politics in recent years. Barring the deplorable Wings site hardly anybody reads them. It is the much maligned (by malcontents and Unionists) SNP politicians whose words and actions are reported in the media who keep it front and centre. Without their input (more often than not denigrated by “the bloggers”) the bulk of the Scottish electorate would assume independence was off the table and the preserve of a few dismissable on-line obsessives. If anything, “the bloggers” have been a brake on the surge towards independence as their unrelenting anti-SNP rhetoric, to the near exclusion of anything positive to say about independence, is unlikely to have persuaded many to become Yes and probably convinced more to remain No.

        (6) I see the “wokes” as you call them (others might more charitably call them “progressives”) only got 2 out of 32 selections for Holyrood candidates. Hardly indicative of them taking over the Party. This obsession with “wokes” is turning into a witch-hunt that will not aid the cause of independence. It is a distraction that could easily derail it.

        (7) I don’t think the Scottish govt is embarrassed by the grass roots movement. It is just that a rather needy and egocentric minority within it are putting their own obsessions before the good of the cause. They shout the loudest and believe that makes them the majority. However, the increasing support for the SNP and embarrassingly low support for the malcontents multitudinous Pop-Up parties (they don’t even register in polls) tends to paint a different picture.

        All in all, I believe your closing comment to be utterly wrong and verging on the ridiculous.

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      5. Agreed!
        “Bravery without forethought, causes a man to fight blindly and desperately like a mad bull. Such an opponent, must not be encountered with brute force, but may be lured into an ambush and slain.”

        Sun Tzu

        The Art of War

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      6. To take your comments one by one, Bungo:

        (1) Continually using the word ‘malcontents’ diminishes your argument right at the very beginning. You DO need a positive alternative before you change your view and, despite your best best efforts to persuade us otherwise, Nicola Sturgeon & SNP have not provided that. There has been NO ALTERNATIVE put forward. None whatsoever.

        (2) As to the Constitution, I think if you had read what I wrote a little more thoroughly, you’d find I said that ‘Scotgov have not even spoken of it’ – meaning not talked of it with the people, not discussed it, nor tried to have it put through legislation. You may not understand what that involves so I’ll explain – it means explaining to the populace what you are doing & discussing, debating & eventually putting it forward to become (or not) part of Scottish law.

        Again – if you had bothered to read what I said, I told you it had been put together with INPUT FROM SCOTS. Dr McNaught Tweeted it, Facebooked it and it was discussed by IndyLive programs & Broadcasting Scotland. If you don’t watch/listen to them, or read any political things, that is YOUR FAULT. Keep up with what is going on and you’d learn ‘stuff’. Dr McNaught told people where to find it and to send him ideas of what should be incorporated, included or to tell him what bits they didn’t agree with. MANY, MANY SCOTS DID JUST THAT.

        And the above is how ANY Constitution becomes law. The fact you didn’t see or hear of this one does NOT negate its necessity RIGHT NOW. The fact you think it should be done AFTER is only your opinion & doesn’t negate what I said, that it was THERE and was not being discussed or debated.

        (3) I did not say she/they showed contempt. I said ‘shown WHAT IS ALMOST CONTEMPT, a completely different thing. In your hurry to paint Sturgeon as the perfect leader that has to be seen as whiter than white, you seem to have forgotten she & The National organised a march in which she spoke of independence & which did not include the Grass Roots Movement in any way. Your suggestion she can’t be a ‘populist rabble rouser’ is thus dismissed by Nicola herself.

        The fact is she is the leader of the SNP. We all know their Raison D’etre – Independence. Whether you like it or not, the elections the SNP have won have been won on that basis. I think that it would come as NO SURPRISE if she stood in front of a ‘Grass Roots organised March (which, incidentally is NOTHING LIKE the picture of ‘just some populist rabble rousers’ that you are trying to portray but are THOUSANDS & THOUSANDS of friendly, peaceful families – elders, children, the whole family shebang’ walking for independence) and Nicola leading the way would hardly be a surprise to anyone! Your suggestion Nicola walking beside a bunch of families walking for independence is ‘ugly politics’ is ludicrous.

        (4) The fact you have never heard of IndyLive and Broadcasting Scotland tells me you don’t follow politics or have much of a clue about what is going on in the indy movement. Which I find VERY strange! But let’s continue…

        (5) ’Slipping tax payers money to favoured media outlets’.. So let’s pay out Scottish taxpayers’ money to newspaper outlets that disparage, dismiss, lie, spin, ignore & otherwise report Scottish issues in such a deceitful manner as to be openly biased and un-neutral to the extreme?? What you are saying is, the £3m to MSM only is ‘not a good look’ but giving absolutely NOTHING to an alternative media is fine. Taxpayers money should only go to the medias YOU prefer. A typical unionist response, I must say. (PS: Again with the ‘malcontents’ there… which is your choice, but insulting others won’t make your argument any more valid).

        Why should Wings or other bloggers pay for other alternative MSM when Sturgeon paid out of OUR taxes £3m to unionists MAIN STREAM media ONLY? Surely if OUR tax money is going to be spent, EVERY media should have had a bite of that particular cake?? Which was actually the point I was making when I originally wrote this. Though I have to say – why is she aiding MSM AT ALL? If they are failing, its because SCOTS DON’T READ THEM ANY MORE. They actively avoid newspapers now due to MSM’s unionist deceit, so to use OUR money to keep them going really was like a slap in the face from her.

        (6) Oh dear… LOL! the ‘bloggers who I ‘adore’…Now you see, you just don’t have a decent argument so you’re going to do this patronising insult thing again. Oh dear… You really don’t like bloggers, do you?? LOL! You have no idea the figures & reading stats of the bloggers or you would know that you’re talking nonsense. But the fact is, they very much HAVE kept independence to the fore front. And given you don’t know much about them, I’m going to say you don’t read them either, so how would you KNOW what they do or do not write? SNP politicians keep indy front & centre? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? They hardly EVER write in a paper (which few Scots read now so what would be the point?) & Nicola has told you TIME & TIME AGAIN Independence is NOT A THING until she has dealt with COVID & she WILL NOT DISCUSS IT till COVID is over! She spouts that at every POST COVID briefing Question Time!! You REALLY DON’T pay any attention to Scottish politics, do you?! You are commenting here for either 1) to hear yourself talk or 2) to contradict what I wrote with a load of nonsense you just cannot back up! LOL

        (7) That SNP aren’t embarrassed by Grass Roots Movement is only your opinion. You’re entitled to that. But I said *I* believed they are and wrote a post stating how MY opinion was formed. Can you back up your opinion that it is ‘just a minority’? You really don’t seem AT ALL INFORMED with what is going on in the Indy Movement so I’m going to conclude that you don’t know whether it is a majority or a minority that believes as I do. (PS: You’re just going to produce more insults, ie ‘obsessive, shouty malcontents’ You know I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find you are a unionist that wants to keep Nicola Sturgeon & her gradualist government right where they are because they are GOING NOWHERE WITH INDEPENDENCE.

        Well… we’ll be trying very hard not to let that happen. All in all, I believe your closing comment to be utterly wrong and verging on the ridiculous. That’s me finished. Have a good evening

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      7. Ooops! On a keyboard I’m not at all familiar with & hitting wrong keys, so trying to fix mistakes & didn’t see this one:

        SHOULD BE * the £3m to MSM only ‘IS A GOOD LOOK’ rather than ‘not a good look’.

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      8. Wow! Just …. wow! So many capitals. The malcontent echo chamber has spoken. I’ll need to bookmark that for illustrative purposes.

        As to the “malcontent” label; its just a word. It’s not insulting. It’s not derogatory. It’s just a useful catch-all for a diverse bunch of people. Look it up in the dictionary. When I first used it I was baffled by the knee-jerk, defensive outrage it caused. Then I found it funny, then tiresome and now …. just a thing …. just another non-issue for the usual suspects to get worked up about. Compared to “Sturgeonista”, “loyalist”, “criminal”, “corrupt” and even “N*zi” (among many others) that the targets of malcontent (sic) ire have to put up with, it’s pretty innocuous.

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      9. Katie again you took every one of MBP false comments and DEMOLISHED EVERY ONE OF THEM , congrats , but a wee piece of advice you are wasting your breath and your typing skills trying to show him/her the TRUTH , he was well known on WOS for just winding folks up and NOT debating points so Stuart banned him for time wasting , now it looks as though he is doing the same with Iain’s blog , we all have opinions and are entitled to them but you can’t force people to SEE the truth

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      10. Sorry Twathater (?), you don’t appear to know the meaning of “debate”. It is defined as “to argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner”. It does not mean to back-slap each other over how much you agree about everything. If Iain wants actual “debate” on his blog he needs people like me for all the malcontents to spark off. Otherwise, all he’ll have is half a dozen “well dones” under his articles (there’s a Carry-on joke in there somewhere). As to Katie’s response to my various points (which you appear to believe don’t exist) she “demolished” nothing. She expressed a different opinion, that is all.

        To take Katie’s points;
        (1) I’ve explained the use of the word “malcontents” above.

        (2) For me, a Constitution conceived on Facebook and Twitter is worriesome. But that’s just me. A Constitution, in my opinion, is not an urgent priority. It does not need to be in place before Indy. It was four years after they gained independence before the US got round to writing theirs. It’s not a priority as most of the rights it would enshrine in law are already guaranteed by law. It just tidies them up into one handy document and adds in a few things that we deem necessary. I know you disagree which is fine. But I’m allowed my opinion.

        (3) I’ll leave the “contempt” meaning alone as it is just a pointless adventure in semantics. But in terms of reading what was written, you need to heed your own words. I didn’t claim the Indy marchers were a “rabble” and “ugly politics”. Ive taken part in them myself. What I said was that Sturgeon marching with the AUOB events “would see her portrayed as a populist rabble rouser”. And I also said that when government and activism become indivisible you get into “ugly politics”. Populism even.

        (4) I’ve looked at the Broadcasting Scotland and IndyLive on their YouTube sites. Each “broadcast” gets about 500 and 200 “views” respectively. I’ll bookmark them but they are hardly major media outlets. I hope they get bigger, but to claim they should get taxpayers money is stretching things beyond breaking point.

        (5) If Sturgeon gave two tiny, pro-indy YouTube channels taxpayers money, the stink kicked up would be horrendous. Surely you can see that. The MSM shouldn’t have got a penny in my opinion but I can see why it was done. I don’t agree with it but at least Sturgeon could be seen to be “looking after jobs” in major institutions while showing no bias against their Unionist tendencies. It was a gesture that may, or may not have had an effect on soft No’s.

        (6) Well …. you kind of lost the plot here. We’ll have to agree to disagree here over the efficacy of the bloggers and draw a veil over your …. outburst. But I do know the kind of figures the bloggers get. Rev Stu is keen for all and sundry to look at the size of his stats (no ego there then) and he is very keen to compare them with his colleagues/competitors …. in a rather negative way. But then why, after literally years of unrelenting anti-SNP/Sturgeon output, are the SNP/Sturgeon even more popular than when the likes of the Rev started their campaign? Why do their pet Pop-Up parties not even register in the polls? Just because folk visit a site doesn’t mean they believe or support what is said there.

        (7) You exist in the malcontent echo chamber Katie. You believe that tiny You Tube channels that get 500 views are major media outlets and that anyone that disagrees with you is either thick, ill informed or a Unionist. You need to get a broader perspective and listen to other opinions. Not just those that agree with you …. and gloss over the cracks that the absence of a common enemy would see you all at each other’s throats.

        That is debate Twathater (?).

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      11. Was surprised to find, on viewing a Broadcasting Scotland video, that Cameron Archibald was presenting it. After all, according to Wings, he belongs in the “Woke” faction. Surprising to find a member of the “malcontent” faction endorsing his site.

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      12. Your comment illustrates everything that’s gone wrong with the Yes movement. You assume, because I’m critical of the “malcontent” faction and their relentless criticism of the SNP, that I am “on the other side”. I’m not and never have been. It’s just the “malcontent” mind–set that forces you to see things that way.

        I’m not in the “woke” faction. I couldn’t pick one of them out of a line-up. I’m the closest you’ve got on this site to a neutral view. I’ve only been to three SNP events in over 25 years. I’m only interested in achieving independence like the vast majority of pro-indies. I look upon the division that both your factions are creating in the only party that can deliver independence and feel like crying. I’ve been arguing for independence for over 50 years now, and just when I thought it was on the verge of being realised …. I looked at the Wings site and thought …. WTF is this!!!

        So now your faction has seized control …. woo hoo. Many comments I’ve seen on your site and others don’t fill me with any confidence that things are going to get better. If anything, too many “malcontents” are more interested in settling scores than uniting the Party. The faction itself will probably start splintering as the loss of a common enemy forces them to face up to the differences between themselves they’ve been turning a blind eye to in order to maintain a unified front.

        Well, now the lunatics have taken over the asylum …. dont f*ck it up.

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  7. Spot on Iain, Cosyfeetpete, as he likes to be known, is a bit of an embarrassment when it comes to independence, I can’t think of one single thing he’s done in all his years at Westminster to further the cause of independence, and as you rightly stated he’s now so ingratiated into the Westminster set up that he saw himself as a candidate for the Speaker of the House.

    I read Cosyfeetpete is on 100k a year, just why on earth would he want to to settle up, when he’s already settled in.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. What the SNP have become scares me: I do not want this glacialist, science-denying party anywhere near policy-making, negotiations or input in the constitution of an independent Scotland.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. I look around most of what has been written on this first day of Conference, and I see Leadership from only one source. There is hope, but it could be a long road and we’re counting down the weeks to what might well be the most important election.

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  10. Agree with every word you said and can’t believe that this is how this party has sunk since they got rid of Alec Salmond.There are still a few that try to push for independence but they are fighting against their own party to get anywhere.

    Liked by 3 people

  11. Pete Wishart aparently made some particularly weird comments about the s.30 case that Martin Keatings is leading – something about it puts the them in a cage, no logic to it – they have the freedom to legislate for a referendum as early as they like if the case is won – and if it’s lost, they can start looking at alternative routes. The SNP should have brought the case themselves, not waiting until after another failed attempt to be given permission to legislate for a referendum.

    Anyway, Martin Keatings explanation in reply to Pete Wishart’s anti-independence stance is rolled into this thread reader:

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1332443214331121666.html

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Thanks for posting,,, I think! I tried to listen, what a lot of fluff! He says it’s not suitable to have the case proven because, because, spanners in the works. He says the uk gov’t is ramping up preparations for a referendum so they might ‘allow’ us one (said prior to Rees-Moggs comments! Haha, not so true now Pete). He didn’t mention what he’s been doing to prepare for one though. He assumes they have respect for democracy, it seems. Oh dear.

        Liked by 2 people

    1. If the Keatings case is won …. great. We can have a referendum whenever want. If it is lost …. EVERY route to independence bar S30 and open rebellion is lost with it. Whether it be plebiscitary election, UDI or whatever, it will be legally, definitively barred to us. And it won’t necessarily be the Westminster govt taking the Scottish govt to court. It will be well heeled Scottish unionists tying the whole process up in the courts citing the Keatings case.

      If the Keatings case is lost, the road to independence becomes narrower and harder. That is why going down the legal route is a high risk strategy and, no doubt, why the Scottish govt preferred to avoid it. While nothing has been definitively proven in the courts, it is a political matter that can be resolved politically by several means.

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      1. It will happen anyway – the legal challenge – and I can’t see any reason to delay it. Why wait to find out if the route will be harder, and how long should we wait?

        This way, there is a possibility of an easier route – it’s not a high risk strategy, it would have happened anyway – I can’t see what reason the uk gov’t would have to allow a referendum, not when the polling is so high, so they would challenge.

        A political route is good – if it can be done, which I can’t see, the Scottish government has no real leverage with the uk gov’t (look at the way they were ignored during EU negotiations). They still need to be shrewd about how they legislate, even if it’s proven they can, though. It’s certainly not a panacea, but it does open up the options.

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      2. I take on board everything you say, but it still makes the Keatings case a high risk gamble. I get that the malcontents are impatient for independence and therefore willing to take risks. But they don’t have the responsibility to deliver independence. The SNP do.

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      3. Well, I think you have to look at the coldly logical side too; when is the best time to hold an independence referendum? Right now – because Brexit and Boris and people’s fears are huge motivators – it’s those that will keep the vote up at a majority in our favour, (but it’s also that that’ll make the uk gov’t unlikely (very) to look kindly on granting us a referendum.) and having a majority of people in favour of independence is the biggest factor we need to make it happen.

        If we are to take advantage of this opportunity, it needs a different kind of force from those that want to take the long view. If we wait until after we have been put back in our box, and have accepted our grim lot – because we always do eh, just to survive – it might be easier to get a referendum, but it will be much harder to convince people too.

        And the British state will not be quite so complacent as last time – we didn’t get the full brunt of their attention until the last weeks in the last referendum – the next one is going to end up much more controlled and interfered in, more like the crap we got in the EU referendum.

        So the time IS now. We should move now, and take advantage of the timing – and give people hope, hope we don’t have to be under British rule through what is to come.

        – it’s not just about people wanting to rush things against the wishes of the SNP, which is a difference in opinion on strategy more than anything. I think it has surprised everyone the extent to which the SNP leadership refuses to even discuss the matter – and it’s this, the debate being suppressed that has made more and more people vocal on the matter. If you agree with SNP strategy, then you have nothing to try and achieve – but, say, IF you didn’t agree on any part of their strategy – how would you express that, and what response would satisfy you? Not the ever-closing avenues to voice your opinion, the ever-tightening of control to avoid dissent, I imagine, – that just makes people shout louder, and criticise more.

        The risk you see from the s.30 case – and it *would* force the SNP to take action – is just something that needs to be done, if you believe the time is now – it won’t be getting easier after this period, whether we take action or not.

        If the SNP was listening, engaging and compromising, there would not be all this discontent, no one wants what we have now, we all want to believe the SNP will deliver, we aren’t doing this out of choice, just to cause trouble – we keep getting TOLD they are being open and transparent and engaging, while behaving in exactly the opposite way – what are we supposed to believe? We don’t know why the SNP delays – why they keep delaying – no one knows, they don’t explain it – Wishart’s blustering incomprehensible, muttered, ‘spanners in the works’ is not good enough – and being opaque and closing normal avenues for voicing opinion doesn’t give any of us confidence in them.

        I just think that the risk you see – which COULD be true – is based on unknown factors that are only ever vaguely hinted at – and the behaviour of those that are hinting doesn’t inspire confidence in the veracity of that opinion. These are politicians, they know about communicating and influencing populations, and they aren’t even trying with the core independence supporters. No, I have no trust in what the SNP say any more, and I’m also very sorry to say that – I wish it was otherwise.

        I will swap a KNOWN risk, for an unknown one any day of the week, though. There is never going to be a risk-free time, and I see an opportunity right now. If this isn’t an opportunity – I need an explanation why. A rational explanation.

        Liked by 3 people

      4. I’m perfectly happy to accept your reasoning if not completely agreeing with it.

        Except for one statement. You state “If the SNP was listening, engaging and compromising, there would not be all this discontent”. The malcontents are such a diverse bunch, with many views on the way forward and every one believing their’s is the only sane strategy, the majority would remain discontent even if some of their number are assuaged by whatever futile compromise the SNP make.

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      5. well, I don’t personally know how internal party workings function – so Iain’s blogs outlining how things have changed have been enlightening – and it shows there have been plenty of mechanisms in the recent past for everyone to have some kind of say, and for all resolutions to be voted on – democracy is always compromise, and it should be a majority decision. So actual policy isn’t ever just one person’s opinion – we are all individuals with different opinions and values after all, you don’t have to feel discontent to have an opinion – and it seemed to satisfy everyone’s need to have a say, or to have the opportunity to change things, when the mechanisms were in place.

        I know that’s how the policy on currency came into being 2 years ago – a resolution was passed by a majority that didn’t include the leadership – and it’s what they should have accepted, but they don’t. So I guess it depends on if you think the leadership are the only people who should have an opinion on policy, or if it should be democratically selected (and everyone compromises). The currency resolution was the correct decision and the best course to take – hopefully not futile, for all our sakes.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. Great work, Iain, top-class. That needed saying.

    Wishart’s completely lost the plot, factually abusing his position and alienating swathes of good people for his personal agenda. That man is never pro-independence, not in a million years, and I sincerely hope he’s reading this blog, and its comments so he’ll know exactly what the people think of him. No, Wishart’s not blocked me on Twitter, but that’s only because I muted him, long-ago, as I was sick of his shilly-shally approach to the future of this country, and because I can see what he’s spouting if need be – and I well-know he’ll be spouting ‘Surrender!’

    Thank god we have some genuine journos, in the shape of bloggers, to hold these long-term, London-based carpetbaggers to account.

    Unfortunately, with each disastrous day, there’s another reason why this current SNP aren’t fit to hold the office of the Party of independence and representation of the people of this country. I’ve seen many determined, lifetime members go from ‘stick with the SNP’, to ‘I’m not sure what to do’, to ‘That’s the last straw – I’ve had enough ‘. People aren’t blind or stupid, we SEE what’s going on.

    I trust our bloggers!

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  13. We are subject to U.K. law. We need to accept that.

    And so at a stroke Wishart says that Scots Law does not exist. Only UK law.

    The guys a fifth columnists lush out of touch.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. “Your bloggers” do not have the responsibility of actually delivering independence. The “carpet baggers” (smear Iain?) do. “Your bloggers” cannot deliver independence. The “carpet baggers” can. “Your bloggers” can blithely walk away from a foolhardy, “just-go-for-it”, wildcat punt for independence. The “carpet baggers” can’t. “Your bloggers” therefore don’t want to wait for a favourable environment for a successful campaign. The “carpet baggers” do.

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  15. “…. outnumbered by more than ten to one.”

    The democracy, or rather lack of it for Scotland is the key reason I decided as a young man to support Scottish independence.

    If I am asked to explain the reason why I support Scottish independence I will say Scotland has never had democracy throughout its history. There was no democracy in 1707 when the Scottish parliamentarians sold out Scotland to England and there has been no democracy for Scotland in the union either.

    Another excellent article, Iain.

    Liked by 2 people

  16. It’s time to stop the bickering and get on with getting Indy done. We have to all come together with All of our differences and shortcomings. United we succeed. There’s new blood in the NEC and hopefully renewed energies, and transparency. Nothing should take precedence except securing Scotland’s future. That future should be greener, fairer, and must be totally inclusive. Let’s pull all our efforts into getting there.

    Liked by 1 person

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